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Thread: New lick to learn...

  1. #21
    Inactive Member Flamaque's Avatar
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    What's a lick? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  2. #22
    Inactive Member Vdrummer's Avatar
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    Smile

    Personally, I'm all for learning licks and lots of them - as well as grooves, styles, feels, etc. By themselves, licks are not good or bad. When used poorly or forced on the music, still a subjective judgement call, they may sound horribly inappropriate and represent a bad choice.

    Then again, Vinnie probably knows a thousand licks. All that stuff isn't just made up in the moment. Any particular combination of ideas might be combined that way in the moment, but if you watch his solos and write out his stuff, you'll see certain patterns again and again. He practiced licks, reading, rudiments, styles, transcribed other drummers, etc., for thousands of hours as a teenager and after. Now they all come out so fluidly through his interpretation of the music that they seem like manna from heaven. Lots of it is really just manna from Steve Gadd, Tony, Chaffee, others and of course, hundreds of patterns of his own invention.

    I transcribed Steve Gadd's Crazy Army solo (version 2005) from his recent clinic tour, and have memorized it. I'm teaching it to a lot of my students. Other than that, I'll probably never use it for anything, but I'm still glad I have it ingrained in my head.

    I've transcribed Nevesis's (Buddy Rich) licks submitted here too, and wrote them into some short solo's I'll be giving to my students next week. Thanks for sharing them!

  3. #23
    Inactive Member got_a_matchgrip's Avatar
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    What's a lick?
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's something you'll take fr Deej or Paul Motian's paddle if you play too many pre-thought stock phrases [img]wink.gif[/img]
    Originally posted by Vdrummer:
    Call it the Buddy Rich Crossover. He's the first guy I've seen on film doing it.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Howzabout the "Buddy Rich CUSSover?!" [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

    There are many players who play very little licks, altho in all reality I've heard only a handful of drumrs that play absolutely NO "licks," even the greatest improvisors, including the great Deej. But he DOES stay away from that "licks" mindset, as evident in his playing & improv. [I guess i'm really getting into semantics/rhetoric/wording of ideas world again!]...

    Both flar & V have valid points here.

    Everyone has licks. If you learned your first singl AWA dbl strk rolls, you have the foundational basis of a "lick" right there...& everyone has used those, depending on the moment &/or tune. But I think licks can be a helpful learning tool & one CAN successfully imbibe them into the improvisation...VC, Tony, & Weck do/did it all the time...a great "lick" at the right musical moment can help be a contributor to the climactic & denouement in a tune...but the best are the ones who can "disguise" this within the tune/improv, such as those cats flar mentioned & more...as long as it's not at the expense of the overall vibe or piece.
    So be very careful not to overlick your favorite piece b4 the time it's supposed to be fini.

    What's better'n roses on yer piano?

    <font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 29, 2005 04:58 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

  4. #24
    Inactive Member ed4644's Avatar
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    What's better'n roses on yer piano?
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tulips on your Organ????!?!!?

    Do I win??

  5. #25
    Inactive Member Vdrummer's Avatar
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    Call it the Buddy Rich Crossover. He's the first guy I've seen on film doing it.

  6. #26
    Inactive Member Vdrummer's Avatar
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    Smile

    HenryII, I thought of Jack's doubles when I read his quote too. Bill Stewart is also very fond of licks. Some drummers seem "lick-free" until you start transcribing them. If you study any drummer you'll see certain sticking patterns over and over. They're unavoidable - its just muscle memory. The good musicians just use them well.

  7. #27
    Inactive Member donu's Avatar
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    After reading this thread i wonder how welcome a "list" of lick can be useful ( in the condition we all agreed here ) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  8. #28
    Inactive Member Lee Collins's Avatar
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    I think that most of us do copy licks. But the true pioneers that create the licks we love to copy, ie, vinnie, chambers, weckl, gadd to name 4, are the ones that sat down for hours every day, working through books such as gary chesters and gary chafees. Or perhaps simply sat down and worked through ideas that aren't in books, working in a painstaking but logical fashion.

    But not working on licks, rather working on being in command of the drums as a musical instrument TO play music on the drums, not licks.

    If you work through enough permutations and combinations of hands and feet and different surfaces, you're bound to find things creeping into your playing that are unique, and you stand a better chance then of being the person that pioneers a lick everyone else wants. But the intent should be music first, lick second.

    The fluency our heros have that allow them to solo and fill so effortlessly and prolificily is through sheer hard work, so it's no wonder they're the guys coming up with the licks. When we play a weckl lick, I'm sure weckl didn't have that intention, but rather that it was easy for something neat to evolve from his playing through practise and improv, and so licks just happen without him hardly thinking about it. Kinda. Maybe [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  9. #29
    Inactive Member Henry II's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Flarobstix:
    I don't play licks.
    Licks are for people that don't truly improvise. HEE HAAAW!!

    <font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ July 28, 2005 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font></font>
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's not true. All of the great improvisors had recognizable licks. It's a matter of using them creatively and spontaneously. I know Philly Joe, Elvin, Max, just from their licks, which they stole from each other, BTW.

  10. #30
    Inactive Member Henry II's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Flarobstix:
    I was only joking but if you want to really hang with the real improvisors of our time well here you are:
    " I don't play licks, licks are a series of thought out passages, therefor they are not elements true improvisation. "
    Jack Dejohnette '04
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As much as I love JD, he plays licks. Plenty of them. But, mostly he plays doubles around the kit.

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